The Listening Leader: Freedom To Hear God Clearly Ep 42

Hearing God’s voice shouldn’t feel like guessing, yet so many of us try to lead while everything sounds muffled. Kelley Johnson sits down with Tia Airington, co-founder of Above All Things, a nonprofit serving thousands of families every month through their mobile food pantry.

Together, Kelley and Tia explore a connection most leaders overlook: how freedom in Christ impacts spiritual clarity. When strongholds, shame, fear, or unhealthy cycles linger, it can be like walking around with cotton balls in your ears. We slow down and name what’s really happening so you can discern the Holy Spirit with more confidence and peace.

Kelley explains how deliverance can be “decent and in order”, grounded in Scripture, and accessible to everyday believers through repentance, renouncing, and practical prayers that activate the authority you already have as a son or daughter of God. We talk about how Satan often leverages condemnation, while the Holy Spirit leads from freedom, wholeness, love, and truth.

RESOURCE:

"Born To Be Free: Discovering Christ's Power to Set You Free from a Painful Past," by Tom Vermillion, who also authored the Free Indeed Bible study. https://amzn.to/4nsVKZn

From there, we get extremely practical: including a discussion on how recurring patterns can signal a stronghold, and freedom requires follow-through like renewing your mind, closing access points, and leaning into healthy community. 

If you’re hungry for clearer guidance, stronger faith, and real tools for Christian leadership, listen, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more listening leaders can find this conversation.

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Kelley Johnson is a creator, builder, and catalyst who helps leaders achieve breakthrough—personally, professionally, and spiritually. She spent 20 years in corporate leadership before founding KEIRUS, a learning and talent management firm serving thousands of leaders worldwide. 

This show is not a substitute for professional therapy or advice. If you need professional support, we encourage you to seek a qualified mental health, medical, financial, legal, pastoral or other accredited professional.

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Keywords: Christian women, Spirit-led living, Holy Spirit, faith podcast, women in leadership, working ...

Transcript

Welcome And Season Focus

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to In the Flow, a podcast for women pursuing God's Spirit in life and leadership. I'm Kelly Johnson, and this season we're exploring what it means to become the listening leader because clarity and alignment with the Lord create a more impactful leader. Each conversation invites you to slow down, lean in, and lead from a place of attunement with the Lord so that we can grow in spirit-led wisdom and authentic power. Let's get in the flow. Well, Tia, I am thrilled to continue our conversation. The first one was so rich and so just like edifying that we didn't even get to everything that I was hoping that we could talk about. So thank you for your yes times two.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Thank you. I'm excited about being on today and looking forward to our conversation. They're always good. So looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

They are. I'm just curious, is there anything that kind of stood out to you or that you reflected on even after our last conversation?

Many Ways God Speaks

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yes, a lot. Um, just thinking through some of the questions in reference to a listening leader, hearing from God, and just kind of contemplating, like, wow, some of the things I possibly could have said. Um, and just thinking through what I said. And I believe that it was important for us to kind of discuss the different ways that we can hear from God. Because I think we have been taught that it's only a specific way, and not necessarily allowing God to speak through everything in every way. God is a, he is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore, but he's also consistent. He hears us, he listens to us, and then he also speaks to us the way we can hear him. And so I think it's important. And that was really something I think that stood out to me as I kind of reflected on our conversation.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah, that's so good. I think you summarized our last conversation, which for those of you who did not hear it yet, go back to episode 41 with my first conversation with Tia so that you can get the context. And we just explored the different ways that we can hear from God. And that I would say the the quick headline is that God uses our personalities and he uses our life experiences and our encounters with him to speak to us. And so I would highly encourage you to go back to episode 41. Today we're gonna pick up from there and start leaning into an area that is really sort of a big part of how we got to know each other even more, Tia. And that is the Bible study that you encouraged me to participate in called Free Indeed. And I love that you summarized our conversation from episode 41 in terms of like the different ways, the diversity of ways that God speaks to us. And I was reminded

Freedom Removes Spiritual Muffled Hearing

SPEAKER_01 3:23

of Romans 10, 17, which says that faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God. And that has just been resonating in my spirit since we last spoke because it's talking about hearing from God. And and the result of hearing from God, I think we often focus on, you know, faith comes by hearing. So I need to, I need to hear more so that I can grow my faith.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

And yet when I think about our freedom in Christ and the freedom that we have to hear from Him, if we don't pay attention to walking through the steps of freedom, receiving that deliverance that has already been purchased for us. If we don't step into that authority that we have, the visual or the image that comes to my mind is sort of like walking around with cotton balls in our ears. We're hearing, but the sound is muffled. Or perhaps we have on headphones, like those noise-canceling headphones, the really fancy, nice ones that I don't have, but somehow my daughter has. You know, we can have these headphones on that maybe we can hear a muffled version of what's happening around us, but we're not hearing clearly. And that's what I want us to tap into today of freedom, deliverance. What is it? And how does it um influence or impact our ability to hear clearly from God?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Wow. That's so good. When I think through that, you know, scripture says he that had he who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit is saying. And I think it's very important for us as believers to hear what the spirit is saying to us. And I'm talking about the Holy Spirit. I'm not talking about any other kind of spirit. I'm talking about the Holy Spirit, what the spirit is saying to us as the church. And so it's important that we understand whose voice is speaking. And when I think about the voice, um, I think about my voice.

Discern God’s Voice From Condemnation

SPEAKER_00 5:34

My voice will speak a lot of times through experience. When you think of the voice of Satan, Satan will come to you and he speaks from a place of condemnation. But when you hear the Holy Spirit, he speaks from a place of freedom. He speaks from a place of purity, wholeness, love, forgiveness, grace. And I think when I think through that, it's important for all of us to really know who we are in Christ. You know, a lot of times I think we carry that as a title, meaning who we are in our walk with God, meaning our vocation, maybe minister, elder, leader, teacher, prophet, preacher, you know, those kind of things, but not that. I'm talking about being a son of God. I'm talking about a son of God. You know, when we know the truth, the truth will set us free. It will totally set us free. And when we walk in that truth, we really would know who we are in God, who we are to him. And that's what I'm referencing who we are to him. When we know that we're son of God, that truth fully adopted.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Fully adopted. Fully, fully adopted in writing, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yes, yes. It's like that type of freedom brings so much liberation, you know. That type of freedom, you know, cast out that condemnation. You know, when I think about that type of freedom, that's the freedom that uh God wants us to walk in, you know, because that was the whole purpose of his son dying on the cross for us, you know, to set us free, to break those yokes, the strongholds, the bondages, to set us free from it all. And so walking in freedom and totally understanding who we are in Christ, who we are to him is really important in our walk as believers.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Okay. So this is already like fire. Um, and I love it. I'm so excited. Okay, let's let's back up because I think I think you and I might be a little hype right now, or I'll speak for myself. I'm a little hype. So let's give everybody um enough background and context to understand what in the world are we talking about? Yeah. You talking about deliverance, you're talking about freedom. Yeah. I thought this was a podcast series about listening to God. So let's just take a step back and I'm gonna paint a picture to everybody of sort of how we met and then the invitation that you extended to me, and then we're gonna talk about that Bible study, the free indeed Bible study. Okay. So I reached out to Tia several months ago, and um, I was looking to volunteer with Above All Things, which I highly recommend everyone check out above all things.org.

How We Met Through Service

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Donate today to support this amazing, amazing organization that feeds and supports and coaches individuals, families, and children to be well. Okay. So that's my little quick plug there. Thank you. Welcome. So I was looking for an opportunity to just kind of serve more than what I had in the past. We met and had coffee. It was supposed to be maybe an hour, hour and a half, coffee. I don't know. I think it was like almost three hours, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Close to that.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

And I said this on the previous episode, episode 41, that you're a part of. And I was like, you know, there's just some people you meet with that your your spirits connect.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Even though on kind of a natural or human level, you don't really know each other that well.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

But it's like our spirits were were communicating with each other uh far beyond like a divine connection.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

It was, it was really something. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

It was something. And in that conversation, you said you started talking about the free indeed Bible study that you had attended and participated in. And yet you didn't know that a week or two prior to that, I was having a conversation with someone about deliverance and wanting to know, like, what is it? Like, how do I learn more about it? And so I just wanted to share that backdrop for everybody so that those who are listening will have context in terms of like how this all unfolded. Before we continue, let me ask you: have you ever wondered how to tell if it's God's voice or just your own thoughts? In the Flow is so much more than a podcast. Each season, I produce a free resource to support your growth. And for this series on the listening leader, I created a free devotional called How to Hear God at Work. It'll help you slow down and recognize God's leading in everyday decisions, whether you're leading a team, a business, or your own heart. Visit im KellyJohnson.com and click on the resources

Free Devotional To Hear God

SPEAKER_01 10:46

section to get your free copy today. Um, Tia invited me to the Free Indeed Bible study. I signed up, went through the eight weeks. Tia, tell us about Free Indeed, the Eight Week Bible study.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

All right, listen, you took you did eight weeks, but I did 16. That's right. Listen, I took that twice. I took the the the Bible, I went through the Bible study twice. Um yeah. For me, I've been saved, let's say that, um, for a long while now. About a two, well, about 20 years or so or more.

What Free Indeed Actually Teaches

SPEAKER_00 11:26

And I've been walking with God, had and I have a relationship with him. I talk to him, I hear him in my dreams. I mean, all of the things, but yet there was a nudge, uh, a little bit more of a pull. God wanted to come, wanted me to come closer. And so, long story short, I attended a church and I was invited to a Bible study. And that Bible study is called Free Indeed, and that's taken place at Life Fellowship Church. And I went to this Bible study, and it blew me away. This Bible study was one that I would say when you're talking about introspection, you know, it's a way that the word was used within this Bible study, biblical step-by-step journey that takes you through the word of God, helping you to rightly divide the word of God, to understand the truth about our Heavenly Father, what he came to do, the great exchange that he wanted to have, and the reason for us to be able to walk in true freedom. Because again, whom the son is set free is free indeed. And so when I think through that, I understood that I was a son. I understood that I was a son of God, but I didn't really understand that there were yokes, um, that there were strongholds, that there were bondages and brokenness there that needed to be um broken off. You know, we we we sing that song, I Hear the Chains Fallen. But it's a difference when you sing I Hear the Chains Fallen. And when you really get into that space where you allow God to break those chains. Because some of those chains cannot be broken because you confess that. Some of those chains can't be broken because somebody laid their hands on you. Some of those chains cannot be broken that way. We have to literally go before the throne of grace and lay it all out there. You know, he said, cast it, cast all your cares upon me. He said, lay aside every sin and every weight that's so easily beset us. We have to be honest. We have to be open. We have to be transparent. It's like um, I heard one of the pastors say, gut me, gut me, gut me, get it all out of there. You know, it's the opening of those areas where sometimes we put all the way in the back of our mind. And so with this particular Bible study, it goes into that space. It goes deep into that space, those places, those areas that maybe you have hidden, you didn't know that were there. When you think about the Bible, it says it's sharper than a two-edged sword. It's it goes into those joints and those marrels, the marrow of the body. That's to me what this Bible study, free indeed, does for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah. And I would just add to that, I really believe this Bible study is foundational. Like every Christian should have this type of training. Absolutely. And discipleship. And I thought I was going into like this deliverance Bible study, but what I really feel like I came away with was deep discipleship as well as deliverance because we were taught what we have available to us through Christ. We were taught why we may not be experiencing what we have through Christ. And we were given tools to access what is already ours. It's already ours. And it's all biblical. Um, I also appreciated that it was very um tame. Like I can't think of another word for it right now, but like sometimes with deliverance, it can get a little wild and it can feel let's I'll just be blunt. Sometimes it can seem weird. Yeah. And yeah, it's hard for me to say that because I'm one of those I don't care about being weird for the Lord. Like I, you know, I will go there and I can and I will. So I feel like I have a bit more, I'm a little bit more open to the different ways that Holy Spirit can move. That said, I appreciated the way that everything was done decently and in order.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Everything was biblical and everything was about what I can do to access what I have as a son, as a daughter of tailor-made Bible study, you know, a tailor-made.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Like, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah. And let me just say this, because I think this is important. Sometimes we think deliverance or a word, a prophetic word, uh, you know, a whatever. A lot of times I feel like we think that it has to come from somebody else who has this anointing, who has this big call. And it doesn't mean that God doesn't use those individuals. But what I love about this Bible study is that we actually have scripted prayers that we can say that walk us through how to activate the authority that we already have because we are believers, because we are sons and daughters of God.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

That's good. I mean, I love what you were saying in reference to the the way it's modeled. You know, it is very, I think that was the thing that that really got me as well. Because again, I've been around church. Let's just say that for a long while. And I've never really been in a Bible study that literally, you know, has been structured in a way where it is, you know that it's been prayed over. You know that it's being in, it was intentionally written. It was, you know, um, you know, uh lit literally given by God. I've now being a leader in that specific class, when I see the individuals that come through that class, they walk away with that same feeling like it was made, it was just for me. You know, it it seems so personal as it pertains the way that particular study has been written. Um, and it it's not in the way that it's again, when I think through that, the condemnation side of deliverance, and it can be ugly in a lot of the things sometimes that go along with it, where a person feels like, you know, I'm just the worst person ever, you know. And then as a believer, not really even understand that there's chains, there's strongholds that are things that we are holding, or that things that we have and generational things that has been passed down. It teaches you about your authority. It's not a, okay, you he you are not worthy of this. You know, you can only teach this or you can only have this if you are this, you know, you have this title or you're, you know, in this position. No, it is for, you know, anyone, you know, to be able to come to this particular Bible study, um, you know, go before the Lord and really seek him personally, you know, and God will, you know, meet you. He will meet you. And so there's practical steps. You're in the group setting. And so again, forsaking not yourself to assemble yourselves ones with an one with another. And then you have that opportunity that you can have that alone time, where it's teaching you and giving you things that you can ask God. It's like probing questions for you to go deeper. Talk to him, go deeper. And so looking at the way those uh questions are asked, it makes you think a little bit more as it pertains to like giving you an opportunity to talk to God in in ways that you may have never thought about talking to him before. You know, a lot of times we push it out. We say, oh, okay, that's not for me. You know, that's for this person or that person. But this particular Bible study teaches you literally pretty much to stay in your circle, seek God for yourself, go to him and talk to him about things. And it's not necessarily coming in a way that is saying, oh, you see yourself as this bad person. No, it's a loving, gentle way, just like our father. You know, God is love. And he said he draws us with loving kindness. And this is what this Bible study is doing. It is teaching you how to come closer to your father and allow him with open arms to come in and love on you in a way that you want freedom.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

You want to be delivered. You don't want those chains anymore because you have experienced the love of a father like no other, and that you have the power and the authority, along with the partnership with him, that you feel, hey, I am liberated. I'm free from any chain, anything that has held me, you know, hostage in any way.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah. And I think the reason why I wanted to talk about the Bible study and bondage, strongholds, deliverance. I think that it would be a disservice to talk about being a listening leader, one who listens to Holy Spirit without addressing the fact that there can be hindrances in our ability to hear clearly or deeply on the level that maybe we desire. And so I just want to speak into for a

Signs Of Strongholds And Cycles

SPEAKER_01 21:09

moment maybe how you might know that there could be some strongholds or bondages at play. If there are patterns in your life, it could be patterns of feelings, it could be patterns of thoughts, it could be patterns of behavior, it could be patterns of people.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Any type of recurring theme in your life that no matter how much you pray, how much you fast, how much you read scripture, how much you go to church, yeah, it if it seems as if you're only able to get so far, but you're kind of hitting your head against this invisible ceiling, there could be a stronghold or a bondage at play. And I think it's important for people to understand. Understand that Satan likes to operate in a very legalistic fashion. And so if we do not address appropriately those strongholds, those bondages, and some of them could be generational, that maybe we personally did not participate in whatever the sin might be.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

But if it was not properly addressed, renounced, repented of, et cetera, et cetera, if it wasn't properly addressed, then the enemy has a legal access to torment us and to hold us hostage in that stronghold or bondage. And so if you are looking for freedom, I'm going to put a link to the book. It's available on Amazon. I can't think of the name right now, but I will be sure to put it in the show notes. It's not the same, exactly the same as the Bible study that Tia and I refer to, the Free Indeed Bible study, at least held at Life Fellowship Church in McKinney, Texas. It is an in-person experience. And so if you are not in McKinney, Texas, but you want to learn how to access the freedom and the deliverance that you have, I'm going to provide you with a link to this book that you can get on Amazon so that you can start your journey. Because one thing that I will say, and then T, I'm going to turn it over to you. One thing I will say is I've I have studied several books on prayer, on deliverance. I've studied how to pray in the courts of heaven. You know, I feel like I've studied a lot of different things. One thing this study provided me, the free indeed Bible study, is I feel like it was the most comprehensive. Wow. It is like an end-to-end solution.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

So I know I'm using a business term, but pretty much everybody who listens to this works professionally. So I'm going to use some work terms that are going to make sense to us who are very career-oriented. This is an end-to-end solution to access the freedom and the deliverance that is already yours. But I feel like, at least in my own experiences, my church history, the experiences that I've had, the things that I've been taught in kind of a Sunday service or even a Wednesday night Bible study, I have never been comprehensively taught how to access freedom and deliverance the way this study does.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Wow. Yeah, I tell you, it's good. It's good. When you think through that, scripture says, if the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. And so when you think through being free indeed, it's not so much about in your works. Um, it's really about faith. You know, the Bible says without faith, it's impossible to please God. And so when you think through that faith, Abraham was counted faithful because of his faith. He was counted as a son of God because he believed. And so it's very important for us to believe that the blood of Jesus

His Blood Is Sufficient

SPEAKER_00 25:09

is powerful, more powerful enough than anything, I would say. Any bondage, brokenness, any past failure, any failures, anything past, present, or future, the blood of Jesus is able to cleanse you from all unrighteousness. It's able to liberate you from all darkness. It is when you think about those broken areas, you talked about some of those things that would possibly be indicators. There's several indicators, just some things, like you said, the ability, the inability to take responsibility for wrongs, personal failures, unreasonable fears, anxieties, self-destructive behaviors, medicating, um, you know, drugs, alcohol, sex, food, other addictions. Come on. Yes, yes. I mean, for me, I think about sarcasm, you know, certain ways, just allowing fear to hold me, you know, for so many years. Um, some of those things, you know, not always are considered um strongholds. But if that's a pattern, if it's a consistent pattern, God wants to bring healing. He wants to bring healing to us. He said healing is the children's bread. And so it's not necessarily always that physical healing, but the emotional healing. Okay. Sometimes we go through things repetitiously, emotional healing. You know, you think about the mental healing. God wants us to be healed mentally. And so, spiritual, there's things that we've dealt with spiritually. As you said, you're looking, you know, for some freedom in some areas. And sometimes you go through those spiritual areas where you've been hurt, let down, broken, even in the church. And so it's really important for us to understand that our position in Christ does not negate the condition of what we're in. You know, the condition is not over who we are in Christ, understanding that. And it was so, to me, it's so important for us to understand that deliverance is kind of wrapped in that, understanding the position and not necessarily the condition. Sometimes we know the condition more than we understand the position. As I was walking just the other day, I was thinking, I'm like, wow, praying away bloodline curses and all of those things. And I heard in my spirit so loud, he said, My blood is sufficient. My blood is sufficient. It reaches to the lowest of lows, it reaches to the highest of heights. And he said, My blood is sufficient for everything. Just like it says, My grace is sufficient, his blood is sufficient to break down any stronghold, you know, to tear down anything that the enemy has had us repetitiously in. Healing is the children's bread, and it's just more than just healing physically. You know, think about the emotional things that we need to be healed from or that you may need to be healed from, you know, think about the things that you need to be healed from mentally, you know. And so God wants us free in those areas, you know, so that way we would understand that we are his children. We're the sons of God. We're the sons and the daughters of the Most High God. And we have that the angel said, Who are who is man? That you are so mindful of them. Do we really understand that position? If we really understand the position that we have in him, that that breaks off the chains already. Because what father would not want to give goodness to his children, you know? And so because our natural parents, our natural father would do good things for us, our heavenly father has far greater things that he wants us to receive and to have. And so that deliverance, it's a part of it, you know, and it doesn't have to be an ugly thing. It's just coming to him. He said, Come unto me, all you who are laden and heavy laden. He said, and I will give you rest. It is the great exchange. It is the great exchange. Take all of this from me, this pain, this brokenness, these habits, take it away, you know, and lay it at his feet. And when you lay it at his feet, he said, when you come unto him, he would now wise cast you away. It doesn't matter. He would nowise cast you away. That's the very reason that his son came and died on the cross for us. And that deliverance and that freedom is ours. It is ours.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

And I just want to touch on that two things. Number one, deliverance can be a continuous process.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Even after you kind of go through the steps of freedom. Now, some people have instant and full healing and deliverance, and that does happen.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

There are also times when we positionally, as you've spoken to, positionally we're free, we're healed, we're delivered. But sometimes the condition, there can be some either lingering effects, or there just might be some continual battles that you have to go through. But I will say that if you use all your tools, you will definitely be able to fight better.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

You will be able to fight faster and you will be able to fight more effectively. That is definitely my experience after taking the Bible study. There are thoughts, especially anxious thoughts, that they still come up. But now I'm better able to recognize them and I know how to address it sooner than in the past. The other, the second point I want to make is I just want to challenge and speak to, because well, I'm an Enneagram 8. I am a challenger. I just want to speak into.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

You are yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

I'm challenging Tia right now by having her on this show. But it's all love. I'm challenging from a place of love because I want everybody to experience their highest potential. I will say that I'm trying to be, I'm trying to say this gently because I want I want to be a healthy Enneagram eight. Um so I'm trying to think of a way to say this gently. And that is

Close Access Points After Freedom

SPEAKER_01 31:37

try to avoid being complacent in your walk with the Lord and how much you will let him in. Wow. Because sometimes we can hold on to tradition, we can hold on to what we know to what's comfortable, but we we block off access to the Holy Spirit. Wow. And Holy Spirit, you can only fit in this tight container that I designed. Yeah, because that's what feels good to me. Yeah. And that's what I know. And that's what my parents did. And if we if we hold too tightly to our definitions, to our preconceived notions of what it should look like, feel like, smell like, act like, we might be missing all that God wants to say to us and do in us, through us, for us. And I would say that deliverance and really understanding what it is from my own church experiences, it's not really being taught talked about very much. So you might have to go outside of your comfort zone and even outside of your regular church. There's nothing wrong with staying at your church. But what I'm saying is step out and see if God is inviting you to experience a fuller, richer, deeper relationship with him and freedom through him.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Wow. So good. So good. I love that. There's a couple points that you mentioned. God did not give us the spirit of fear, you know, he gave us power, love, and a sound mind. And so there's also um a verse that said he gave us power, love, and self-control. Um, and when you think about what the fruit of the spirit is, one of those fruits is self-control.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

And when we understand that authority that we have in Christ, self-control is a big thing. It's a big thing. And we do have authority, and we do have the power to say to ourselves, no. And it's big. Sometimes we have to say to that thing, that cycle, no. And we have to be able to be okay with allowing our flesh to suffer. We have to be okay with those traditions being put away. We have to be okay with saying goodbye to the old me, you know, because when we are walking in that freedom and that newness and life where God wants us, he says, stand fast, therefore, in the liberty by which Christ has made you free. And then he says, do not be tangled again to the yoke of bondage, with the yoke of bondage. And he said, which is sin. Because again, when you think about it, once we're free, everything is clean. We're renewed, we're free, we're, you know. But again, um, there's also what we have to do is shut those access points out. You know, we gotta shut them down, close them up. You know what I'm saying? If you're single and you've been mingling too much, close it up. Uh, you feel me? Um, once you've been delivered, do not open up again, close the access points. Um, you know, if you have been an alcoholic or a drug addict, um, you gotta close up those access points. If you talk too much and you lie all the time, you know, you gotta close up those access points. Renew your mind, you know, renew your mind. That's in the word. That is, you know, having accountability partners, having people that you can talk to, that they can walk you through, you know, these steps. You know, being a um a listening leader is not about you having all things together. It's about you leading people well. And so I think that's a big part of why God wants his leaders to walk in freedom. Because again, we can bleed on other people. When you think about things that take place in our lives, you know, sometimes our experience becomes the truth in our life because that's a worldly saying, you know, experience is the best teacher, and experience is not always the best teacher, especially if it takes you outside of those parameters in which Christ has made us free, you know, when it puts us in a place where you shouldn't trust anybody making those vows. I'm never going to. This will never happen again. I'm never gonna love again. We have to close all those doors and allow Jesus and his precious blood to flow in those areas where we've hid and where we just don't want to be exposed. Because again, those areas may hurt. And Jesus wants to go into those areas and heal every place that you hurt. You know, he loves us, you know, he loves us. And I think it's important for us to understand that deliverance is not, you know, taking something from us. It is really getting something to us. When you think about it, it is getting something to us, you know, and then ridding us of all the things that really don't belong to us. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And so all of that stuff is not ours. Get rid of that, it's not ours, it's not ours.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah. And recognizing that we can't get rid of it on our own. We have to use the power of the blood of Jesus that is available to us. If we could, we could have taken care of the patterns or the issues in our lives on our own, we would have already done it by now. Already, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 37:25

And so nobody wakes up to say, I want to be a drug addict. No one wakes up and say I want to be a prostitute. You know, you don't do that, you know. As a kid, you don't say, okay, this is, I want to be this, you know, I want to, I want to be in bondage for the rest of my life. You don't wake up with that desire, you know. Um, and so knowing that because we don't wake up with those desires, because that's not innately who God has called us to, that's why being born again is really important. That's why confessing our faults one to another. That's why going to God boldly, to his throne and getting all that stuff out, talking to him, opening up those areas where we where we hurt and exposing that so that way his blood, his, you know, love can actually go in and heal us in those areas. And so we can throw out all that other junk. You know, you got spring cleaning, you know, you get away, you change when the weather changes, you put your winter clothes away, and then you bring your spring clothes out and all of those things. That's what you need to do when it comes down to that, those cycles. Clean it out, get it all out there, you know, and throw it all out. So yeah, I love that free indeed actually, as you say that, give you those tools to be able to take that junk and take it to the junkyard where it belongs, because it's not yours. It's not ours. We are blood bought children of the Most High King. We are royalty. We're peculiarly peculiar. We're his people. He loves us. And so understanding our position in him and thinking from a higher standpoint and taking authority and understanding that position and not necessarily focusing so much on our condition, understanding that the conditions may be there, but we have the power and authority to uh trample, as the Bible says, over scorpions. And he said, and nothing shall by any means harm us. And so understanding our position in Christ is really big. And I think free indeed actually gives you those tools that you could use to be able to walk in your fruit, your true deliverance, and not um be conformed back into those old patterns, you know, after you've given those things up.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah. I wanna before we wrap up, I wanna do two things. Um I want us to pray in a little bit, but then I before we do that, I want to talk for a moment about on a practical level. And maybe there's a personal story that comes to mind for you, but on a practical level, I wanna talk about the difference between hearing from God as a listening leader before the headphones were removed, before the cotton balls were taken out of our ears, and then what

Hearing God Faster At Work

SPEAKER_01 40:10

it's like now, now that the cotton balls are removed, now that the headphones are off. And so I'm gonna share a quick example. Um, and I and I'm I'm really am sort of intentionally choosing something practical and career related, but it could also be your family, a relationship with your child, a sibling, whatever. So I might I might share two quick examples if I can. Okay, so the first one is I was in my car driving and praying. I'm dealing with a hard situation at work, and I don't feel fully equipped. It's requiring me to use skills that are not my strongest and not my most favorite skills to use. And I'm uncomfortable. And I'm tempted to sort of get in this place of like imposter syndrome and like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna make a big mistake, like, this isn't gonna go well. Like, I could feel the temptation to go there, and I know that that's where the enemy would want me to go. And so there's just been this wrestling of really resisting that temptation to get into fear and to buy into the lie of the enemy about a very practical, real situation at work. And now that I understand the freedom that I have in Christ, the authority that I have in Christ, now that I understand that more, I'm able to take those thoughts captive that try to exalt themselves above the knowledge of God and demolish every argument that is contradictory to the word of God and who he says I am. And so I'm able to pray differently. Yeah, I'm able to encourage myself in the Lord and say, God chose me to be in this position. So if he chose me to be here, is he going to leave me or forsake me? Absolutely not. Yeah. Why? Because that is totally opposite to who he is and what his word says.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

So if he has me here, then he's gonna give me what I need to handle the challenges that come. Doesn't mean it won't be hard at times, and it doesn't mean that I won't learn or maybe even stumble a bit. But I know that he will send his angels to have charge over me. I know that he will be there for me, and I know that if I ask, he will give me the wisdom that I need.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

And so that I would say is a very practical day-by-day situation that prior to taking this Bible study, I might have lingered longer. I probably would have lingered longer in despair and anxiety. But I would say now that I have taken this Bible study and now that I understand more about my authority and freedom in Christ, it has increased my capacity to hear from God faster and with more authority. Is there an example that comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Well, I love the example that you gave. That was so good. I would say, as it pertains to myself, this is not my strong suit here. Just throwing myself all the way out there. Oh, you mean being on the show? Being on the show. Just do anything that would put me in the front or put me in a place where I think I talked to you about this the other day of sharing me, you know, or sharing things about what God has given me. And I love kind of what you said because it brought me back

Breaking Fear With Community And Truth

SPEAKER_00 44:05

to that space of saying, okay, first off, it's not about you. Then secondly, this is the experience that you've had. So we're talking about your experience. We're not talking about this as you being an expert. We're talking from a place of your experience. And so because of that, you know, it brought me back into a space of saying, you're absolutely right. You know, this is my story. This is who I am. You know, I am a daughter of the Most High God, and fear is not mine. And so it gave me the uh the faith to continue to press on, you know, because the Bible says perfect love casts out fear. It casts fear out. And so I realized that that has been something that has tormented me for years as a believer. And when I said I've been saved for over 20-something years, fear has held me in so many ways. And that was one of the ways in which you don't have anything that you don't have anything to say. You know, you don't have anything to say. And if you do, you will be will you think you're an expert on that area? You know, it's those, those, those words that um those lies. Yes, those lies that the enemy and also yourself will speak to yourself first because you have to give him access. You give him access by the things that you say first. That's right. And so that thought, you know, was I'm not an expert, so I don't need to be on there. Nobody needs to hear me. But then I also have to look on the flip side that there were also lies that the enemy was also saying based on other people that said, you don't have anything to say. Nobody's gonna listen to you. And so I had to take those thoughts captive. I had to go to someone and hear the person in conversation. And that person said, you know, that's a lie. You know that's a lie from the enemy. And so that's why we're not, it's not good for us to do it alone because we sometimes will sit in those things, sit in those spaces, and then we will hear that over and over and over in our ear. And so doing this life, God wants us to be in community and having trusted individuals in our life to speak to us so that way we can hear the voice of God speaking through them, so that way it can get us back in alignment, you know, with the word of God. And so I would say that was the most recent experience that I did have, but thinking of that from a standpoint of that's been a stronghold. That was a stronghold that I struggled with for years that I allowed to speak louder in my ear than the voice of God. And so having that authority and knowing who you are and who we are in Christ, not to man. You know what I'm saying? Like my allegiance, you know, God is He's speaking so, so big, so loud to me now. Your allegiance is not to man, it is to me. You bow to me. You know, I am your heavenly father, you know. I know all about you. I know that I've called you, I know who you are, you know. And guess who I am? I'm everything to him.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

I'm everything to him. And so I don't have to have fear and I don't have to, you know, walk in, you know, that those lies in which the enemy has so allowed me to be paralyzed by for years. And so that's one of the most recent practical things that I would say. Just having individuals in your life that will actually hear you speak the lie, and that lie is not the truth, you know, and bring you back into that space of understanding that that's not the truth. You know, that's not who God says that we are. And so again, Free Indeed did that. It gave us the tools. But again, these are practical things that we have to do on a consistent, you know, on be very consistent in that. Anything, we have to be consistent in that. And your deliverance and your freedom, you have to be able to make sure that you walk in that consistency. You know, you can't stop praying, you can't stop reading, you can't stop, you know, going to God in those same intimate ways. And you can't stop opening up your heart, you can't stop doing those things because again, you have an adversary. We have an adversary, you know, that will love to come in and take over.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Still, kill and destroy.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

That's that's his thing. Kill, still, we will not do that. The Lord said, I come to give you life and that more abundantly. So anything that comes to bring condemnation, fear, torment, that's not of God. It's not God.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

And I want to share really quickly, and then we're gonna pray. Um, because I I feel prompted to just share this. Our ability to listen as leaders who are parents that this freedom, this deliverance also benefits our relationships.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

And and I just I want to speak to mothers or parents in case there's fathers here too. The other day I was in the kitchen, I think I was making dinner and I felt I heard the Holy Spirit say to me, Ask your daughter a question. And he gave me the question. And the question was, ask

Listening Leadership In Parenting

SPEAKER_01 49:23

her if she thinks I could ever be wrong. If God could ever be wrong. And I was like, okay, that's a interesting question. But you know, I'm I'm pondering it and I'm like, that's a it's a very unique question, Lord. And it felt a little out of the blue. And I was like, okay, I heard, I heard it in my spirit to ask my daughter that question. And I was a little worried. I was like, okay, how's she gonna take that question? How's she gonna respond? Is it gonna create friction? But I was obedient. So I heard from Holy Spirit, ask her this question. And from that, we had a great conversation. I was able to just understand some questions that she has about God. And by asking her from a place of curiosity, and because it was timed by God, not by me, because I know like my timing sometimes as a mom is not good, and and I want to go in and I want to like make my point and I ruin the moment, I ruin the conversation or the situation. Or actually, no, I don't ruin it. Let me kind of take that thought back.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

It feels as if I have ruined it, but I know that God can redeem it. Yes. Even when I do make mistakes. But I just I've I want to put that out there. On this show, we do talk a lot about work and career leadership from that angle. But there's a previous episode in this season with Kathy Twan McLean, who wrote a book about mothers in the Bible. And I'm being reminded right now by the Holy Spirit that as parents, we're also leaders in our home. Yeah. As siblings, as sons, as daughters, we're leaders in so many ways. And it's important for us to remember that God wants to speak to us about all of the roles that we have.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

And that they are all an invitation to hear from Him, to be a listening leader in the home, in the church, in the school, in the parking lot of a grocery store, wherever. Um, and that's why it's so important for us to walk in the freedom that is already ours so that we can be listening leaders wherever God sends us. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Amen. That's so good. That's so good. And I guess that's what he wanted when he allowed us to meet. He wanted us to, you know, converse in that way and to understand what he wanted to do in and through both of us. And so I'm just so excited about where God has and is taking you. And I'm honored again to be a part of what the Lord is doing. And so I'm just grateful again. So thank you for listening to the Holy Spirit and allowing him to probe you, to probe me to do this. Um, because I realize that, you know, it's it's what God wants, you know, and to eliminate all of the, you know, fear and to continue to allow me to step out and into who he's calling me to be. So thank you again for being a listening leader and um probing me. I know I joke with you and say, okay, I can't believe you did it again, but God knows exactly what we need, you know. And so I love that story that you shared with your daughter because it does open us up to areas and conversations that we wouldn't have otherwise had. And so it's it's amazing, you know, that you had that conversation with your daughter. And those are things that we will, she will never forget, you know, she will never forget. And those are things and times when we could really speak, you know, from the voice of God. So being a listening leader is really hearing the voice of God and speaking what he gives us to speak and walking that out in ways that others who hear it, you know, you know, it says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And so being a listening leader is very is really important, whether it's on your job, in your home, wherever, in the community, being a listening leader is important. And being led by the Holy Spirit is very important as a leader. And so thank you again for this opportunity.

unknown 53:44

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

Well, thank you again for your yes. And this is just as as I knew it would be. It's been incredible. I'm grateful for you saying yes, even when maybe you didn't want to at first. So thank you for being a listening leader too, to just be open to consider and to lean into that. So let's close out in prayer. Awesome. Okay. Gracious Father, thank you for your beauty. Thank you for your love. Thank you that you're always speaking. Lord, will you just help us to understand all that we have available in you and through you?

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

My desire, Father, is for each of us to walk in the freedom that you already secured when you raised your son Jesus from the dead. Will you give us a greater revelation and understanding of that? Will you help us, show us, equip us

Prayer For Freedom And Clarity

SPEAKER_01 54:38

to take the tools that you've already given to us, Lord? Yes. And to um walk in them and then to use them for your glory, to use them for the for the edification of your kingdom. Use them, Father, to reach others who are hurting, who are lost, who are suffering. Please continue to guide us, Lord, on this journey as listening leaders.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

And so, Lord, as we come before you, we're asking you as Yahweh Rohi, the Lord our shepherd, Lord, all the things that we desire, all the things that we need, all the things that we are uh lacking, God, we know that you will supply. And so, Lord, you told us to come unto you, all who are heavy and laden, you told us you would give us rest. You told us to take our yoke, take your yoke up on us and learn of you. You said, because your burdens are easy and your yoke is light. And so, God, we thank you that we know the truth. And the truth is setting us free, God. As we spoke about deliverance, as we spoke about freedom, God, we thank you because whom the Son sets free is free indeed. And so, God, we thank you that that freedom is ours. It's our portion, your blood. You sacrificed on that cross. And not only did you sacrifice, God, you rose from the dead, God, and you took um death, hell, the keys, and all of that, God, because you are victorious. And because you're victorious, God, you said we can be victorious because you overcame the world. You said, so can we. And so, God, help us to see as listening leaders that it's so important to lean not to our own understanding, but in all thy ways that we should acknowledge you and you will direct our path. We thank you because you're the author, you're the finisher of our faith, God. And we trust you and we believe you, God, and we know that you will make all things well. And so, Lord, we thank you again for this time. We thank you for your presence meeting us here. We thank you for every listening leader. We thank you for everyone that will hear this. God, we ask that if they would be blessed by it, that, Lord, they will begin their journey, that they will seek out a true deliverance and freedom in any area that they have had any cycles, repetitious things that has held them in any way, God, that they would seek you, Father. And you said, when we come to you, God, you will no wise cast us out. And so, God, we thank you again that we're your children. We thank you again that we're making the great exchange with you, God. We thank you again, God, that you give us that power and authority that we can trample on any serpent or scorpion. And you said, and nothing shall by any means harm us. And so, God, we thank you, Lord, that you're our friend, you're the lover of our soul. We honor you with everything within us, and with that we say, in Jesus' name, amen.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Thank you for flowing with me today. If this episode strengthened your spirit and leadership, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. Remember, deeper clarity starts in community. Visit Iam KellyJohnson.com for free devotionals and to learn more about Raya Circles, where faith and leadership truly go together in the flow.